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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1958-04-15-ATOBC-min oa,--.;114104 ADDITIONAL TOWN OPIUM .8UILDING COMMITTEB manna April 10, 1908 A meeting of theAddittonal Town Orrice Building Committee was held in the Selectmen's Room, Town Office Building, on Tuesday evening, April 10, 1908 at 8:00 P.M. Chairmen Brooks, Messrs. Reed, Maloney, Johnson and Hunter were present. Mr, Kimball, heating Bngineer, and the Secretary were also present* The disoussion held was about as follows: Chairman We are not happy with the way this heating system is working Mr, Kimball and in your letter you gave me the impression it is not anywhere near correct. Kimball: It is not going to work as it was originally intended, Chairman: If it was impossible in the beginning Kimball: You say you have my letter. Chairman: Yes, This is of March 20th, Kimball: The fourth paragraph"During the bidding period we were givelinstructions xroM the Committee through your office, to eliminate the room thermostats from all offices and the Women's Cell Room in the basement" . We were given instructions from Mr, Greeley to eliminate all thermostNts, Maloney: Do you have a letter from Mr. Gree14y? Kimball: No, it was all verbal. Chairman: The only change I remember, originally there were three zones. Kimball: No, two, Chairman: Thor, was one for the basement, first floor and second floor. We deoided we would make only two zones, There was no objection by anyone at the time and it was agreed it would work, Kimball: It is not working as you wish it would work beesuss we wore given instructions and I know they came from your Committee through Mr. Croeley's office to omit the thermostat in these offices and the second floor offices . Maloney: Are you In the habit of taking verbal orders? Kimball: We have to do it every day in the week, Maloney: This is a very important item. You listened to ua for a whole evening telling you what we wanted for a heating system and_you came 4 ,,•i7 2* back with, something ontlrely different. The minutes of the meetine will tell you what we asked for and you agreed It we an excellent setup but you eame back with an entirely different setup. Kimball: We are tallting caout temperatur4 , Chairmat: We aro talking snout the hanting systor,i . When you say it MKs from thia Oommittes, you better bo sure . No one on this Committee remembers anything about leaving out thermostats , Now it doesn't work and if it does not work now, you knew in the beginning it would not work. Kimball: That is why I laid out the thermostats. aloney: Then why did you c,IAltinao? Kimball: It is woring. Maloney: It is not working to oar satisfaction, Kimball : I asked the patrolman how the h/Aating system was Working and he aaid wonderful. I was given, instructions to leave out the thermostats. Choirmant Let me quote you at our meeting. "You can go to three zones if you want *pay Thr it." We asked you what it would coot, "It is quite ex- pensive, if you, are talking about three zones against two, Min it is probably even 3teven," Later on it cawe up whether or not we would usA the two-valve system with tomporaturs controls on it. That was with Mr. ;Fisher . Kimball: To offset the effect, to mit VOA thermostats the boat thine I could do was to add in the addenda. Chairman: Do you consider it riuht that te downstairs system has no control? Kimbell: It has control fror tho outdoor compensator. Chairman; What happens to the upstairs? The al. stairs ie controlled by a thermostat. Kimball: That is thenight thermostat. It was installed for niOt setback. You con use it but it was intended for the night setback. Chairmant It is necessary to use it ocontrol the circu- lator. We have no control on the downstairs circulator. himballt I was told to omit the thormostate, Do you think after I showed them on my plans I would cut them out? There is no reason in God's world why I would do that without instructions. Maloney: Any other changes made on which you did not re- ceive a letter from the Committee? Kimball : I imapine so, I don't hnow offhand , Chairman: How can you have control of two different zones without thermostats controlling oach zone? Kimballt Tho whole system was ruined when you instructed me to omit the thermostats. I was given in, stractions to mit them. r Chairman: If that WAS your understanding, you should have told us then tho system would not work. On a very cold dhys I counted six radiators shut off. Kimball : I don't doubt it. The system was ruined, when the thermostats were omitted. Maloney; You wore very careful on the hot water to moo (solve letters and authorization* That we could rot have porchasod if We wanted it end you were very careful to have letters on that. On the most important thing in the buelding, and in your own mind you knew it would not works you did not take instructions from. us. Any man doing the job knowing in the first plate it is not right is not qualified, W are not heat. ing onginoors hut you are and we paid you to be one . Kimball: When I et instructions, I follow thom. Maloney: You aro not a qualified engineer when you follow instruction4 from people who don't know about them. Kimball: Thole you. gave instruotiona and don' t admit it, Chairman: We gave two Zones instead of three . No con- trol of oither zone? Kimball; Except by the outside . Reed: Whore did. you get those instructions? Kimball : I work for the architoot. Reed: We never gave it to the arohiteets for sure. Maloney: It would have been nioe to havo the Chief here * Chairman In your opinion with the thermostats on oath zone to control the circulator would i correct the system? Kimball; No. How does the second floor work oat? Maloney: With radiators shut off* Kimball: You can put a room thermostat on that zone* Chairman: Why can't you put one on the lower one? Kimball: The lower floors supply boat to a unit heater in the garage), a unit, heater in the mens tell rooms a unit ventilator for the shooting gallery and two unit controls for the assembly room. Whorl they needed heat in the coil room and garage, they could not get it. When the circulator was stopped and oalled .for heat in the assembly room, shooting gallery below freezing temperature the radiators freeze . Reed; en the second floor, we had to adjust that to get the heat up there in the day time . The heat on tho first floor would drive you oat. They usually have the window open. Chairman: Those are not all different tirouita. Kimball: No, on the stme circuit, It cost more to run a separate oirouit for those then it would to have the room thermostats the way they were originally intended, Johnson: As I recall, was whether we would have two zones or throe . I centt recall a cost fetor coming into it. Kimball: The instructions came from some place, Where would they have come from? Chairman: I am sure I aunt know* Our minutes bear out we did decide on to zones. Heed: The night he was here we never gave any in. structions. KiMbaIl: I am sure I did not originate it. Reed: Do you have letter? Kimball: No*: X' checked my files and there was no letter. Maloney, ,;vory change we made had to be spelled out. Zverything was done that may except this ono* the most important one . Uunter: Wasn't there a change order made out. Maloney Can you stew as he we have received a credit? Kimball: There was an addenda made before the bidding period. Rood: This change order was made before the bids were out? Kimball: I gave the architect two addendas on alum 21, l9560 That W43 during the bidding period. We were given instructions from the Committee and an addenda was issued. Johnson: When did the bids go out? KiMball: I have no record of Vaat, The architect would have no indontive to pass on any instructions like that to me * You can appreciate my situa.. tion. A would have no oblection. Chairman: If you were certain, Mr, kamball, the system would not work before it wase done , you should have advised the Committee or advised the architoot and he could come back to us, Kimball: The system, de work, Chairman: No, it aessn't. imbal': Tho men seem to ce very well satisfied with, it. They did not know what I was asking questions about. Maloney: We understand it has boon nothing but a source of trouble and people have been back. trying to adjust it and have not succeeded. It overheats so windows must be loft open or it is cold be- yond endurauce. Kimball: When is it cold? Chairman: Lipstairs, timball: Since the first or second month of the heating sason, I have not heard any complaints about the cold. Reed: Did you. have a, man over there today, Mr. Eimball? Kimball: Yes, Chairmen: In heating the second floor you get an over.. heating condition on the first floor so there 16 something wrong. Kimball: in the original layout the basement first floor S. designed for twenty-four hour hosting and the 5. second floor is eight.hour boating* To balance those up for those two conditions is difficult to do* Chairman: Apparently it can't he done so there to something lacking* Kimball: The thermostats are lacking, yes. Chairman: I feel, 4).inha,11, that if you know the system would not work and you did get those instructions, you should have come beck as an engineer and advised again4t it, that it would not work, imball: It in working, Chairman: Not the stories I get* Maloney: It is running. It is delivering it hut it is very unsatisfactory, Kimball: Who issued to instructions that it what I would- like to know Reed: We issued instructions on things much smaller than that and I am nure we would have it in writing* Chairman: You uay in your letter "It was unfortunate to oflit the thermostats", March 20, 19580 Wo should have boon told than. Kimball: I was given instructions to omit the thermostats. Chairman: It would seem to we Kimbali it was your duty to come back and ear we would have a system that does not operate properly and you would not be responsible then an0 not now. Kimball: We don't have time for all those things. Chairman: You wore hired fore that. Our instructions were to have two zones. ie do, not have a properly working system* Maloney: Whit bothers mo* everything else had, to be so specific, spelled out, written and, signed with, the exception of thin item. Kimball: You must haNe had a copy of this addenda* Maloney: I don't recall it. Kimball: How were they- omitted? Johwton: That information went to the contractors . Chairman: We had a complete copy of the specifications. oesn't that refer to room controls? Kimball: That is right . Chairman: As we understand, except for the outside thermo- stat, which is used to control the boiler water temperature, there is nothing to control the oirculating water in the heating system, Kimball: On the second floor ventilator, you have the night thermostat, Chairmnt The circulator for the police is running oon- tinaally* Kimball: YQU have to have it that way, 4; 4 6. Chairman: It is not the proper control in this day and age to tell ,t they haVe to have heat whether they want it or not. Kimball: Do they close the dampers on the radiators? Chairman: 4 number of times different ones save adjusted this and that and it has never been satisfactory. Kimball; I with youwould glift me the answer where the instructiOns came from, Maloney: That would be very weak, If we decided we are unhappy about this, where every item was down in writing and this item was not. You toll us someone called you on the telephone . Ximball: I was working for the architect. I would take J7 instructions only from the architect. There would have been no reason for issuing that addenda otherwise. It ornated somewhere0 bat don't ask yte where . Maloney: The way I feel, and I think the Committee fools, thv heating system is very unsatisfactory, Kimball: I can kdmit tbat because the thermostats were omitted. Maloney: Then you should, have told us a long time ago Kimball: You knew this was in the addenda. Toey were out. Chairman: There was some discussion at sue tine on get*, ting alternate prices which wore never sant in on the different zones. Kimball; I dontt recall that. Maloney: We have an unsatisfactory heating system, Do you know how to correct it? Kimball: Yes, to back to my oribinal plan. Maloney: Is that the only way it will work? Kimball: You can improve the second floor by putting a room thermostat in slam; critical office . On the first floor, you have to put room, thermo.. state. Chairman: in every room? Kimballot in every room. What I have in mind is to install seven thermostats to control ton radiat- ors on the first floor and a thermostat in some critical room on the second, floor to con- trol the circulator. Chairman: What are wo talking about? Kimball : In money? Chairman: Yes. Kimball: The rirst floor, unfortunately, the temperature contra people did not get out hors until to- day. At quarter to five I Lot a price forin stalling seven thermostats on the first floor, an estimate of $1600 Wt it did not include the labor or putting in the authmatic Valves In tkv; pipe connection40 It will probably. run 44,000000 for a guess, 4 7, Chairman: You feel even with a thermostat control and circulator for the lower zone the best cannot be adjusted so It will give reasonably good control? Kimball: On the second floor there are no unit heaters, no ventilator, You can start the circulator by a thermostat for that zone . The basement md first floor zones you have three ventilating units that draw in outdoor air. If you put a thermostat anywhere on that zone you start anl stop the circulator. It would be very libble to freeze up these three coils, To pipe it so those unit heaters and unit ventilators would be on a separate , it would cost more than putting in thermostats . For good control they should be dol each principal office where they complain. The two offices facing Massachusetts Avenue and the detention room, the Clerk's room and the chief's room. That is five rooms . The price uot from Powers Radiator Company was for the Chief's room, Clerk 's room, main office, assist. ants detention room and two juvenile rooms . It will cost a lot more to put it in now. Johnson: For the 02,000 for the first floor. What about the second floor? Kimball: I have only individual room control on that. To put in a room circulator there for a night thermo- stat in the Inspector ' s room that could be re. wired back to the circulator to control the whole second floor zone , Reed: We have not had much complaint on the seoond floor since it was adjusted, Hunter: What does the control control if it does not control the ciroulator? Mr. Kimball read from the specifica- Kimball: it would not cost much of anything to change tions that for intermittent operating during the day for the second floor. Hunter: Then it does control the circulator? Kimball: Yes. The first floor and basement is a dif. ferent category entirely. I would not dare have the circulator for that floor run on an intermittent operation. You would freeze three coils . Chairman: I lust don't understand if this was so critical why we wernot advised that It would not work. Johnson: The seven thermostats you spoke of are on the first floor. Do we need thermosats in the basement? Kimball; I have not had any complaints in the baaement. The men's cell, garage and shooting gallery are on a thermostat of their own. Johnson; I don 't understand it at all. a, 8.. il t ars 11$ How often is the trfo*s room, cupied? Ohairmani Not ver often* mel: The u: s *ell and the garage are 611 their em than ntet. free arc no ether {(ritical rooms acme thea excethe mat 6fil 6 J room* Oha ns If the thermostats were zoned why dQAtt we get them en the heater unite where there wee a possibility of these things freez:n ? ximballt "feu have the notate on those* It d•pause on oonstent operation of the eire i Ietor. Chairman: If the therm etsta are on there what tic those thermostats control? Mr. Masi/ read an excerpt from the epoc.i. fteati 0 Kimball; Those operate the inlet valve auppl:ying Water to the radiator and also control dampers so that daring the • Char* Xe there a ways a rolls the inlet water with a thermostat? • :Kimball: Yes* Ohairmant. I thought that Wee one or the seven we need to KimbaIll t he p 'i s room, aeries nom* o f .ce teems • tiessachuSetts Avenue, a atitigtifint00 room nut to the front rice* the date tie rem* I also included two juvenile rooms* I don't Imow holt much they are used* You could et* it down to those lige. Char; What atilustment is on. the radiator that they ha'e been t tea uetat Kimball* A balancing tt� t Y der. What I offeree ta 4, letter* tinesaehusetts Avenue front races south and the sun earning in there will tend to heat . one room* The rooms in the rear seldom yeti any cera. Reed* I have c.}• through Ai t jritar and aeon windows open on the .Hassaehusetts Avenue side tea . ,t They were bore after March 20th* Have you, seen them ewe they hese been here the la at time? Reeds Vet* Kimball* Over there tonight they said it wee eutirelY satisfactory* I did net see any i xdewe open* C1 irmaxa* Did.you. nae ar+ d ors art? nbaU* I didn't n c .#3k* Jo := fout It is not right now andit will Coat 02,000 to fix it. Are we cure that is going to do fit? Kimball!ll.! Ye#* I would expect very pleasing results* kia oneys If Mr* Greeley wee here along with eu maybe we could rind out where some of twee theme e. from* . (reedy shows * then Piro Fisher shows up and you show . We never 9. get the group together. Al! I recall is the type of hhating,wo wanted and what we cot * They werik two entirely different setups. You are the man we talked to In the beginning and you are the num who came back with an entirely different setup. You left here with the instraotions of the Committee at to what we wanted for a hoatine plant arta you cams back with somethim:T, entirely different, Ki4)alls Those plans aro what you wantod, Maloney: It in not what we so'kel for* Chairman: I would not call it a two..Control heating systmn, Maloney: It is far from a two.zono hooting system, We are vary unhappy about the system, Kimball: I am sure the instructions did not originate with Mr, (11cieley snd I e ure they did not originate from me , I Qot my instructiona from Mr, Oreeleyfs office* Moloney: You don 't know who gave you those instructions? Kimball: No, not now, Chairman: Depending on an outside weather thernostat for control we do not have two zones* You might just as well have one zone. mballs I did have two zones in tho original plans* Chairman: Or Instructions were to have two zones and we do not have them* If .,yomr instructions from the architect told you to change you should have come back and said the system, would not work, i\lmhollt It does work, Chairman; It is not setisfactory ard you admit in . our letter it iv not satisfactory, Kimball: The fIrst tiro Icalled on the Qhief he was not happy, I had an adjustmont made and he said everything was woqderfal, 7,r* reed read an. excerpt from the Committee meetin.7 held March. 18, 1958. Kimball: One thermostat on the first floor would not help you unless you want to freeze up the radiators, Has anyone checked sincethe steam fitters wore out here the lost tine during the week. of March 20th? Reed: ie have no knowledRe of when they cams out, We never get notified when anyone is Coming out. Chairman: It is not right. Maloney: 5-. (5 you. feel as though it won't; wot'k? Ximhall: It will work mad is working now, It won' t work ideally, no, I said POQM thermostats 10101 the solution and that is the Ideal tomperatore ton- trol* Johnson: It Is not satisfactory now. It will cost 02000 to t'ix It and who pa yA the "02,0007 Maloney: I feel we have no responsibility for the heating system. We wore advised how to handle it , It was changed, We s 'ned no change order. 4 f 10. Kimball: The addenda must have co to Johnson ; It certainly was not a change order. Kimball : It vas a change in the bidding, procedure , Ir 1 anyone will toll me who is responsitle. Maloney: The architect and y,u, both of you, Kimball : We would have no object in wnitting those . Malonell You did not Anform us, neither did th architegt, that if Tio left thom out we would have an in. adequate heating system* Johnson: If it 14 adequate , it is inefricient. him:ball: Those plans wee correct and if I was doing it over again I would do it the same way* , zallonayl You did not tell w thAt the typo of system ., we sh..:iuld have . I don't say it Is not a &cod beating system but I do say you csAe back with something wo did not expect and worontt looking • Kimball: It is two zone. Yo . only want eight-hour heating • in the second floor which T. hay* given. Maloney: On the second floor you could have given as . • intermittent heating day and night . Tcimball: You have that at night. Maloney: Couldn't we have had it daring the day? Kimball : You could have, yes. Moloney : We have no cesntrol over that heating system . during the day. Kimbell: I have not hoard about shutting radiators off on the second floor. Maloney: We ars not getting far. The Chlor la theone most familiar with it over thro . Kimball: I have had one complaint. Reed: All tho complaints from the tvatlog are coming fror thp Cl Maloney: tvo are passing them along to you and this architect. I think it would be wise if the Committee, Mr, Grueley and the Chief act to- gether, or Mr. Kimball, r. ( roloy and the Chief gat toi4thr because the Committee is acting as a t,,o between. I think you should v4a14e sos effort to get it straightened out. You hqvo %ado 00NO effort, but accordir16 to reports it 1.;, not satisfActory . Kimball: Have you had any compl tntr incs ,* March 20th? Reed: Mo. Wt thl, Chief knew about this mooting to- nht and he did not say there had been any change and not to have Mrimball hevJ* He did not say it was working perfectly to ma. mr. Reed called the Chief and reported that ho raid the fitters were out. There is a. slight improvement but they still have to shut the radiators off. Kimball : We can out them down more. Reed: I thinli wo should got t-veryons together ' I think we should have an efficient system there and we should not have to ww around eating 1 e 11. down radiators . . Chairman : The day we had open house was 180 or 20° and we had a very high wind and there were radiators shut off, For now, Mr. Kimball, and not to keep you any longer, we will discuss it and would you be willing to come again to discuss it with Mr. Greeley and the Chief? In the meantime , we will check again to find out if these recent adjustments have made any improvement . We are in different weather and adjustments made now may not work then. Kimball: In mild weather it is very difficult to make adjustments on any control system. You have hardly had time to mak satisfactory adjust. ments , Chairman: You are hopeful it can be adjusted? Kimball. : Yes . I think there has been an awful lot of talk. It can he improved and we are trying to improve it. Chairman: If it is not right, and we are hearing come plaints all the time , then it refleets on us. Mr. Kimball retired at 9:25 P.M, Bids for window screens were received as fol- lows: Fred J. Per ,, Inc . - 61 Aluminum half a:Lidice screens with aluminum wire 4 335.00 Cambridge Semen Mfg. Co. - All aluminum 338.00 Solid steel bronze wire 429,00 Tubular steel 488.00 Crown ahhde & Screen Co. 61 ;Atli' height aluminum sereens, olnminum "U" channels included 309.14 Boston Veereen & Sash Co. Frames, solid bar steel, 650.00 load and tin dipped covered with 14 x 18 copper bronze wire Maloney: I wonder if we should see a sample . Johnson: I think you should give a thought to bronze in place of aluminum. Maloney: Have each one of them give us a s mpLe of what they are going to install. Mr. Reed agreed to contact the bidders for the Committee . 120 The Chairman pmeented a letter he received fran L. C. Make Construction Co. with referent() to the letter of March 7* 199. Ho Also t4)4ented +copy of letter from L* 0* raelcc Co. t Nrip Greeley reque6tia, mment of -0.000* the bal,tnce due on t contract. A. letter friA Oreeley 107,ated that he thought. the above plyment had alroady boon oortifiod. No aotion was tatIon. The mooting uOtorned at 9:30 P.M.