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SELECTMEN' S MEPTING
June 4, 1952
A special meeting of the Board of Selectmen was
held in the Selectmen's Room, Town Office Building, on
Wednesday eyening, June 4, 1952 at 8:30 P.M. Chairman
Nickerson, Messrs, Gay, Driscoll and Heed were present.
Mr. burns Sup' t of Public Works, and the Clerk were alsz)
present. Mr Stevens, Lown Counsel arrived at 8:45 P.M.
and Mr . Emery arrived at 8:55 P.M.
Dr. William L. Barnes and his attorney, Mr. Broadhurst,
met with the Board to discuss tne proposed location of
the Sunnyfield sewer in connection with its relation to
property owned by Dr. Barnes, and the discussion was
as follows :
The Chairman suggested, and his attorney, Mr. Broad-
hurst met with the Board to discuss the proposed linei
is going.
Broadhurst : How many extra feet would it be?
Burns : 240 feet at 432 a foot.
Broadhurst: Which is 43200.
Burns : Right.
Broadhurst: We will trade you 43200.
Chairman: You aren't doing anything like that at all.
When we get back to marsh it is at least
410 a foot for the whole .
Burns: 02 a foot is the extra footage and does not
include any extra cost for coming through
the marsh.
Broadhurst : As I looked at it tonight, isn't there a
fairly well defined zone of ledge that
could be followed?
Chairman: If you want to dig down eighteen feet.
Broadhurst : You get in here and it is wet on top.
Barnes: This is dry field here.
Are the stakes in t.W. .l'i1Adle?
Burns : Not exactly in the middle of the taking.
Broadhurst : Do you know where the line between the
residential and industrial zone is?
Burns: I can't tell you right off quick. It
does not include the property. This last
Town Meeting, it was extended to Route 128.
Broadhurst : It takes in Mrs . Bean' s . I have done some
work for her.. I was thinking that one of
the questions that both Butterick and Dr.
Barnes has is with the unbuildable strip,
how would it affect future development.
If it is next to an industrial zone and
could be run along sn industrial zone that
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element could be eliminated.
Chairman: Where is your unbuildable strip?
Broadhurst: You can't build on an unbuildable strip.
Chairman: No, but you can have a street on it. This
is buildable land tow• rds you.
Broadhurst: What do the zoning laws size require?
Burns: 125 foot frontage and 12,500 square feet.
You may be interested to know that w€,s given
thought when this was laid out in this dir-
ection for the reason this land down here
is not desirable, but it would seem to me
more sensille if a street is going to be
laid out, it would be up here in this vic-
inity. You would be trying to get the
shortest street and still have desirable
lotting. You can take either side of the
easement for whatever street you want and
run lots b€ ck into the land that is not too
good for houses gnd you would be one of the
few streets that go in with the sewer end
no betterments .
Barnes: If you had a house here you could get into
it?
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Burns:
Chairman: Yiu can build a street over the sewer.
If ever a street were put across the whole
the whole area , we will say Wood Street
which is in talking, the street would bridge
across the sewer.
Burns: It was one of the thoughts behind the layout
and it was nwt just stuck in there. If someone
purchased the whole parcel f.nd had an idea
of development that is the way it works out
and I contend it is a betterment.
Broadhurst : You signed the contract the other night.
Chairman: We have Lit-de no annoucements whether we
signed a contrast or not. Let ' s pass that
1 by please.
Broadhurst : All I am saying; Is 'vhat Stevens told me over
the telephone, If, as and when a contract
should be signed what is it contemplated to
have in the contract concerning the responsibility
of the contractor for the safe keeping of
top soil.
Burns: Ito responsibility on the part of the con-
tractor.
We write them so that anything to be done
as far top soil, it would be bulldozed to
one side then stocked. he trench is replaced,
backfilled and brought to final grade and
the soil is put back again. If there is an-
deficiency in loam it is all replaced.
Barnes: At that level will the manholes be?
Burns: They cin be as we talked .
Barnes: If a street is put in they will have to come
up.
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Chairman: As long as you wish to use that ES farm land.
Mr. tevens, Town Counsel, arrived at the
meeting.
Barnes : There is a line of shrubery that can't be
plowed. This manhole I can't see.
Burns : This can move one way or another.
Chairman: May I inquire for the record if ou are
representing not only Dr. Barnes, but
his two neighbors .
Broadhurst: I represent Mr. And Mrs . Buttrick and Dr.
and Mrs. Barnes . I am trying to figure
how we can get ads ill in Commons land.
Chairman Are you serious?
Broadhurst: I don' t represent Mrs. Commons. I don' t
know if Dr. Barnes wants to lose the sewer
or not.
Barnes : The loam will be pushed off?
Burns : Pushed off and replaced.
Broderick : When do you thihk this part of the work
will be done?
Burns : If we get a signed contract we will try to
start it in here for one job and start
down here for the other. I expect they
wo"ld by in some time in July.
Broadhurst It would be done from this direction?
Burns : That is right .
Broadhurtt: How fast does it go?
Burns: Very blow. Twenty feet a day would be doing
well.
Chairman: If they get there in July they will be very
fortunate.
Burns: I am picking; a time I would like to get in.
This man has equipment large enough so he
can handle it .
Broadhurst: I don' t know what industry would want to
move in there bgtt maybe somebody would.
Chairman: You gentlemen are quite conversant by this
time as to just how this layout would
go through your client ' s property. If
you have any more questions to asks about
the physical part, I, would like to have you
ask them and then I would like you two
legal gentlemen discuss the matter because
that is the main idea of our meeting tonight .
Broadhurst: You are the Chairman. If you want to run
it I will be glad to play my part .
Chairman: I think Mr. ''tEvens has some questions to
ask when we have the physical aspect taken
care of.
Mr. Emery arrived at the meeting.
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Stevens: Have you ironed out the physical questions?
You know where it is going, how, method of
construction, etc . ?
Broadhurst : Yes .
Stevens: The only question. is acquiring the right,
whether by grant because the rush is to
get the sewer in.
Broadhurst: What you would like to knov, is whether you
are going; to have to make a tE king or
whether you will get on easement granted.
Stevens: The easement would be 25 feet permanent
even?
Broauhurst: The sewer line would be even over the
pipe .
Chairman We should stress the fact that the
easement would be paid for .
Broadhurst : That is a subject of interest . I don' t
know whether you tape the position of
putting in a sewer and any land owner should
be glad to give an easement .
Stevens : We don't spend money where we don' t have to .
Most have given us the easement because they
wanted tie 'fewer. - -I don't scall Any-place
where we had to go down so deep . Where it
is only an easement we don' t usually give
money. If crops arc_ damaged or trees have
to come out, there is no reason why you
should not be compensated .
Broadhurst: As to that point, both Mr. Buttrick and Dr.
Barnes have land which is used for agricultural
purposes end Dr. Barnes ' land in the past in
this whole area this would knock it out for
the growing season.
Stevens : All or part of it?
Broadhurst: The doctor has told me , and this is a matter
too when the right of a lawyer which I don' t
want considered es an admission or statement
by which I want to be bound, but the doctor
has told me he had negotiations with a gentle-
men who was prepEred to leEse the lend for
a truck garden but would forego it because
of the rest of the land being made valueless .
Chairman: I have had a little experience for leasing
acreage for truck fFrming and it is not a
lucrative business .
Barnes: How pbaut settling of land?
Burns: Ordinarily during, the period cf which this is
going on, you have tamping over the pipe
and the rest is usually filled in by bulldozer .
We have gone through ell the trenches and
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jetted them with a two-inch stream from the
fire hose End brought them up to grade again.
In this instance the loam would be going on
and it would be jutted twice. We have not
had too much trouble with settling. If it
did settle, we would have to go beck and
raise it up.
Barnes: For how long a period?
Burns : They hold rte for ever after. In this type
of case where it is wide and deep it will be
there for quite at period of rain. I feel
that when we go out of there, I would doubt
you would have much settling for the main
reason I don' t want to be going back again.
Reed: Have you any crops there now?
Barnes : There is nothing there now. We have not dared
to start it. The fellow just refused to start
it. i-he fellow just refused to strt. On the
upper part there are perennials, a few hundred
of those.
Chairman: Bid you do this last year?
Barnes : What is that?
Chairman: Did you lease the land last year for crops?
Barnes : There was a very fine garden there last year.
Chairman: On your land?
Barnes : No. I did not own it until October^
Chairman: You have no background of leasing.
Barnes : I did not have anything to lease there last
year.
Chairman: Have you an offer for a lease this year?
Barnes : I did have.
Chairman: Do you want to present that evidence for the
record?
Barnes: Right now?
Chairman: I am just asking.
Barnes: I had three offers for leases. Does it matter
which one you have?
Chairman: I am just curious .
Broadhurst : Let ' s lay out the facts .
Chariman: I told yoi before that I had land thet I
leased out to farmers and I would just like
to know how lucrative it is for you.
Barnes: The land as it stands wzs in the neighborhood of
X1500.
Stevens: Do 'ou want to think this ovt_r or tell us
if jgou will give us a grant or an easement?
Broadhurst : If the Selectmen should feel that through the
loss of the growing season and through losing
the lease, Dr. Barnes is losing something by
having the sewer put in for which the Town
feels he should be compensated - in other
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IIwords, if the Town wants to buy the easement
that would b€. one thing. If the Selectmen
think they are unwilling to huy the easement
that would be another thing. I can see where
a Board will go either way.
Stevens : What do you mean?
Broadhurst: You laid on some occasions the 'Town felt that
the easement should be paid for. If the Town
is willing to pay Dr. Barnes and pay Mr.
Buttrick something near the value which they
would otherwise have from the growing season
and are going to lose, that would put a
different cast on thinking of the doctor and
Buttricks.
Stevens: jho you mean that if the Town is willing to
pay something it can ue obtained by grant
and otherwise it will be taking?
Broadhurst: I think the answer is yes . I would find it
hard to advise Dr. Barnes that he had anything
to lose by having thc, proposition take the
form of a taking with the prospect of some
consideration some time. I say that, having
in mind that Dr. Barnes will derive a benefit
' as a citizen.
Stevens: Do you have a figure in mind?
Broadhurst: No. I came here with the idea the only thing
we had to talk about was a possible relocation
or a discussion between you and me when you
would file your notice pf taking and when I
would file my petition. I am pleasantly sur-
prised by the third.
Stevens: Before the Board acts we would havc to soave
a figure .
Broadhurst : I don't know if the Board wants to say it is
worth so much and we will pay so much for the
grant.
Stevens : Does Mr. Buttrick farm it?
Broadhurst: He farms it for himself.
Reed : Has he any crops in?
Broadhurst: He has a bed of strawberries . Most of the
current season of strawberries will be gone
by the time the loam has to be removed for
the sewer, but the other part is already
plowed.
Broadhurst: Is it a general truck garden?
Barnes: Yes.
Gay: I understand you to say that this is a
logical place for the street and if the sewer
is in. lots would connect without betterment
charges?
Burns : Yes .
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Gay: It vould be a betterment to the area if
the doctor could cut them up and sell
them without betterments .
Burns : In the streets, the sewer will be assessed
In this portion here it won' t. If a street
were laid out there, we would assess it.
Stevens: If it can be lotted, and I assume that it
can, it is worth more with the sewer than
it would be without it and I think that should
be considered . Whatever is done is public
property in the Town and known about and
discussed and everyone is always looking
to see if someone else is getting something.
They don' t like to pay betterments and don' t
like to see theother fellow get away without
paying. Maybe ou two would like to talk
it over.
Chairman: We wo ld like to get a satisfactory solution,
but for tie Town we have to get a common
sense solution. If you will discuss it and
intiiate what you have in mind it will be
progress.
Broadhurst: I will more than intimate. I will tell you.
i?here is no point of our coming in with a
figure which you would think is away out of
line. Would you give us any amount which
you think is reasonable?
Chairman: All we can do is consider any proposition
that you people may offer. I believe you
are reasonable gentlemen and are aware of
the physical situation here. I don't think
anyone cen think there is a heavy damage in
there .
Broadhurst: .erom a pe aeanent point of view you are proably
100% right.
The Board left the room at 9:15 Y.M. during
a discussion between Dr. Barnes and his attorney.
The meeting reconvened at 9:30 Y.M.
Broadhurst: I can't make you any final proposal because
I have no idea or authority to make any offer
on behalf of Mr. Buttrick On behalf of
Dr. Barnes, #1 - We will forget about any
damage or loss to Dr. Barnes ' land that
may be virtue gf having a permanent easement
on the theory that it is offset oy the
advantage of having the sewer. All we are
A talking about is the loss depriving him
from the income of his land during the present
growing season. He had a firm offer of 41;1500
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IIand it seems to us that 01500, well he lost
it. Then the line of the sewer from the
street down to the point where it makes
the turn goes through, including the con-
struction easement, beds in which he now has
something over 1,000 perennials worth 50q
each in place and would cost 500' to transplant.
We say 4i2,000.
Emery: Would that 0.500 include the right to sell
the vegetables from the stand?
B.rnes : Rrom the stand.
Emery: It includes the right to sell the vegetables?
Barnes : Yes .
Chairman: I would think you have about how many acres?
Barnes : Four acres .
Chairman: You had 4p375 an acre for the use of the land
for one year.
Barnes : When you figure they do 0200 or 4p300 a day for
the stand that is not unreasonable.
chairman: The use of the stand will not be impaired .
You c n still run the stand .
Barnes: If you don' t raise anything you can't use the
stand.
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Chairman: That is very good theory.
Emery: Isn't it common practice for some of these
farm stands to sell produce from other farms?
Stevens: I would have to check.
Barnes: You wo.Ild have to raise what you sell.
Stevens: It is supposed to be raisc,d by the owners,
but none of the strnds abide by it.
Chairman: They don' t raise oranges, lemons, etc.
The point I want to bring out is the price
of 075 for the use of the land for one year
is a fantastic rental.
Barnes : Would the .hoard like to have evidence? Do
you doubt my veracity?
Chairman: I don' t doubt your veracity.
Barnes : If a man can do 03,000 business in one month,
a month like last month.
Stevens : Selling what?
Barnes : What is t.,ere now.
Stevens : What are they growing?
Barnes: Plants .
Chairman: You have dbne that elready?
Barnes : I have not done It.
Chairman: Someone has done it?
Barnes : The season is over right now.
Chairman: Well then that has not been harmful to your
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Broadhur rentor.t: We have not included any element for what
has already happened .
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Stevens: What is the land assessed for?
Barnes : Same as any other farm land .
Chairman: The whole land is assessed for v3300.
Burns : The Barnes ' land is assessed for 41600.
Emery: The rental of the land includes the right
to sell produce and I think that is quite
different from the mere rental of land .
Whoever intended to rent it will probably do
what most other stands do and not confine
themselves to what is grown on the premises.
Chairman: Have you any knowledge as to whether your
other client, Mr. Buttrick, is going to be
defeated in his year' s operation. Does he
sell material from the stand?
Broadhurst : I don't know whether he sells from that
stand or not . The extent to which his
operation would be defeated by the inability
to work across the line of the sever, I would
guess to oe 75% or 80% of what he has laid
out there to do. He has part of an orchard
and the rest is cultivated land.
Barnes : The best land is left.
Broadhurst : The sewer will be in the middle of the 25 feet.
Chairman: Have you any comments Harold?
Stevens : The idea of 42,000 for one season of land that
is assessed for 43300.
Chairman: Dr. Barnes ' land is only 41600.
Stevens : The i2, 000 would be more than the assessed
value . Town Meeting would tell the Assessors
to go out and do their job right, if the land
is assessed for 41600 and the damage for
interference for crops for one year is 42,000.
It would not be possible to pay for one year' s
interference at something over the assessed
value of the land.
Chairman: I would say that we are still willing to
agree to any amount that the Board could
dorisider reasonable and we don't want to be
unto-operative or appear to be hard boiled .
We simply have to make our minds rip to a
business proposition and we are responsible
to the Town and would lean a little over
further backwards than if it were our own
business . I gather that the reaction of the
Board and Town Counsel is not good.
Nroadhurst : We will be glad to go out while you men make
sure.
Chairman: Go out a nd let us conferfor five minutes and
why don't you use the five minutes to confer
also.
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Broadhurst: We will be glad to go out for five Liinutes.
Dr. Barnes and J..Ir. Broadhurst left the meeting
at 9 :45 P id.
Emery : Apparently the value of this thing is the
privilege of using the stand .
Chairman: Do I gather that the feeling is, now we have
come down to a point of knowing that it is
a sum of ;iJney they want, the sum has been
named and the Board crn take its chance in
Court.
Emery: You mean rather than make a counter offer?
Chairman: If ye can' t irrive at a sum our conscience
can go along with.
Stevens: We have a figure presented and know we are
well within the savin, by going this route.
They are not in a position to suggest any
figure tonight for Buttrick or any other parcel.
We should consider them all and not dispose of
any one . In order that the matter might
not be held up, go ahead with the taking.
The matter of the disposition of damage
question is open for further discussion.
When he gets a figure we would like to have
it. The .Joard will give it full consideration
and y.,u will tell them what you will settle
for. If we can' t agree, we will try it.
Chairman: How does the Board feel?
Gay: I will go aion<, with advise of Town Counsel,
Reed I will go along with the taking unless the
offer is away down.
Driscoll: I would like to go . I w) uld not pay anything.
Surprised at the doctor, living in town, would
act like this .
Emery: How about Town Counsel telling them the figure
is higher than what we wait to recommend and
mow, ask if they will get a figure from Buttrick
and the other man.
Chairman: I don' t like it because this thing is going
on and on.
Emery: I am in favor of the taking, but tell them
what we think is tt fair counter offer as soon
as they give us the ideas of what the other
people want.
Chairman: If you re willing to go along that we are
going to make the taking; and then leave the
door open, all right. I am sympathetic with
' Bill ' s and Harold ' s idea that we are setting
up a precedent.
Emery: Our offer .can be as low as ybu want to make
it.
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Stevens: The matter can be adjusted after the
taking as well as before .
Chairman: I would be glad to h ye Town Counsel make
a legal statement covering this matter.
Dr. Barnes and Mr. Broadhurst returned to
the meeting at 10:00 P.M. and Mr. Driscoll
retired.
Chairman: We have discussed this matter and the Board
has asked me to ask Mr. Stevens to convey
to you, in a clear-cut manner, just what we
have arrived at. He will do it from a legal
mind .
Stevens: As far as I see it, we are at no disagreement
about the location. You know where it is
going. The only question before us is the
amount of compensation, if aw, to which the
land owners are entitled. That being so,
and it being important that the work start
as soon as possible, I suggest that the Board
should make a taking so that it can be done
at the next meeting and the contractor can
get in as soon as the work will allow him
to and we can continue discussion on the
question of compensation after the taking
as well as before .
I think it is impossible to fairly dispose
of just one parcel where we have three.
You represent two of the owners and can't
talk price at all on one of them. Con-
sideration of offers will have to be given
to what compensation the other owners are
entitled to. When you two 6et a figure th t
you feel is fair I think we would like to
have it . We will go over it and after taking
into consideration the other committees in
town who might be interested, we will have
a figure that we think is fair. If we can
adjust it between ourselves we will do it.
If we can't we will have it adjusted by the
Court.
Broadhurst : I do think for the record that I might say
it is still m client ' s preference to have
the sewer run s his petition indicated,
namely down along the back despite this sub-
division plan worked out. I3y client thinks
he could make a oetter one . We came to an
agreement that reg• rdless of my client' s
view, there .is no possibility of relocating
the sewer anyway.
Stevens: You have no plan of the development of the
land?
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Broadhurst: No plan on record. No engineer .or_sultreyor
has been to view the place . It is what the
doctor and Ur. Buttrick have discussed from
time to tlrne about what they; would do .
Chairman: We hope this will come out to everyone ' s
satisfaction.
Dr. Barnes and Mr. Broadhurst retired and the
meeting adjourned at 10:05 P.M.
A true record, Attest:
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