HomeMy WebLinkAbout1964-12-19-min 494 ,K)
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SELECTMEN'S MEETING
December 19, 1964
A special meeting of the Board of Selectmen was
held in the Selectmen' s Room, Town Office Building, on
Saturday, December 19, 1964, at 9:00 A.M. Chairman
Cole, Messrs. Brown, Burnell, Cataldo and Sheldon were
present. Mr. Gray, Executive Assistant, and Miss Murray,
Executive Clerk, were also present.
The meeting was held to give the department heads
an opportunity to express their ideas and recommendations
in regard to salaries for 1965.
Mr. John J. Carroll, Superintendent of Public Works,
presented his thouggts as follows:
"Number one, I think that I explained in my letter
that the Board should be thinking of some type of a
longevity raise, something so when an employee reaches
the maximum in his grade, he has something to look forward
to. You could give a 2% raise ev ry other year. You
can do it on a lump sum basis. You could give him a small
amount of money each year. You coulkdo this every five
years. I do feel the average employee who is not the
type of individual who is going toadvance much beyond
the position he is in, should have something to look for-
ward to keep his initiative up. It can be stated so that
if the individual does not merit it, it can be cut out."
Mr. Sheldon said it could be discretionary.
"My problem is to hire a man who is going to be a
laborer for twenty-five years . I was talking to one guy
who said the big thing is 'I have nothing to look forward
to. I have reached the maximum and am not foreman
caliber so I look forward to the next years the same.'
I think this year the Board should consider giving
a general overall increase. I have the figure of 5%
in mind, but actually I don't know what the figure should
be. There were no raises last year. There is no question
abcut the fact salaries are on the increase every place.
I do want to point out one thing, and I do respect the
Board's authority. Last year, the Police Department got
a $300 raise so that now patrolmen who work S-13, the same
as a grade 2 civil engineer, net S-14. I understand there
is a problem getting patrolmen. The Lieutenant and Chief
have gone up a step. I have an Assistant Superintendent
of Public Works and an Assistant Engineer. There has
been some change in the Evans' Plan which has thrown this
whole thing out of kilter. I believe the Board should
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consider the problem of the salaries of administrative
11 personnel all through the whole departments. My feeling
is the department heads have a great deal of responsibility
and in some cases, compared to outside industry, the amount
of salary a department head is getting for a similar job
in industry, is quite low. I know my responsibility and
people in outside industry are making more than I am. I
am not speaking only for myself. At the present time,
there is no organization, any type of Union. I don't
want to see any. I don't think we have to kowtow to
employees, but I think the Board should stay ahead of
the employees. One way is to increase the fringe benefits.
For instance, many towns are paying for all the Blue Cross
and Blue Shield. This could be one way of increasing
salaries. You could even give larger vacations. I am
also going to consider asking the Board to reduce the
hours in the Public Works Department from forty-four to
forty. Out of twenty-six towns, we are the only om work-
ing forty-four hours."
Mr. Cataldo asked if Mr. Carroll meant the Board should
reduce the work week to forty hours, leaving the pay the
same, thereby increasing the pay rate. He said this would
be a 10% increase as far as the Town is concerned.
"This was done for the Fire Department."
Mr. Cataldo said the Town could pay the same amount
of money for four hours less work.
"It would not be 10%."
The Chairman said this would mean more men.
Mr. Cataldo asked how many men working forty-four hours.
"Forty men."
Mr. Cataldo said the department w( uld need another
four or five men.
Mr. Brown asked if Mr. Carroll felt any relief on
this business of people putting in their own sewer and
water connections.
"Yes, but I know I want extra men this year whether
we go to forty hours or not. Depending on what the Board
does, I am asking for five men this year without this."
The Chairman said Mr. Carroll would be asking for
nine or ten.
"If the Town wants the services in the public Works
Department, we have to have the people. Paul has more
school grounds and play areas to t ake care of. Every
school with a large area and any athletic facilities, we
maintain them. We take care of the Fiske School, William
Diamond, Estabrook School.
The Chairman asked Mr. Carroll what percentage of the
Park Department budget is assigned to schools.
"I don 't know. It is not just schools. The center
playground area is becoming more complex. The athletic
program in the scho' is is becoming fantastic and they tee
off if the field is not right for them. We line up the
fields, put rollers on the track. If you compare our
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personnel to comparable cities and towns, we are away
below.
On highways, water and sewers, take the miles of
street. We have more miles of street in most every case
than comparable cities and towns and less men by far."
Mr. Cataldo stated Lexington has a different oper-
ation than many cities and towns.
"You can get an idea by comparing five or six of
these towns."
Mr. Cataldo asked if these cities and towns installed
their own services.
"I did not get into that. We put in our own water
mains. Water mains is one thing I feel we can do well
and we should do because it is a little more complicated
than other things. It is something a Water Department,
I think, should do. It is much cheaper. We have a
situation where if a mechanic wants to fix a truck, he
can pull it off the line and another one can take its
place. We have a real good maintenance program. We
have to face up to these facts. The Town has to face up
to these facts. The Schools take precedence. "
Mr. Cataldo said one should not take the attitude
that the school takes precedence. He said he did not agree
with this.
Mr. Brown said in spite on the additional cost of taking
care of school grounds, he thought it is cheaper to have
Mr. Carroll's Department do it anyway.
The Chairman said many things being done by departments
under the Board's control affect the schools and it should
be recognized that the schools are costing more than what
is showing.
Mr. Cataldo said as far as the bookkeeping goes, it
all comes out of the same pocket.
The Chairman said there is a certain amount of work
done and money spent by Town departments for the School
Department and he did not think it has been recognized.
Mr. Cataldo pointed out that the Women Police Officers,
sidewalk construction and plowing are because of the schools.
He agreed that there is a substantial amount of money spent
by other departments to help out the school.
At 9:30 A.M., Fire Commissioner Bailey and Chief Engi-
neer Beleastro met with the Board. Chairman Fitzgerald
arrived at 9:40 A.M.
Commissioner Bailey presented his thoughts as follows:
"I think, in looking at salaries in general every-
where, our business - we plan automatically where merit
raises are considered, you are going to be faced with a
5% increase per year. Something like 4% for merit and
1% for cost of living. The difficulty is, what do you
do when the guy hits his maximum. The only remaining
question is how you make up the progressive 1% cost of
living increases. How much pressure is exerted because
of what other towns are doing. Is the wage a living wage.
Is it one where a man can raise a family decently. We are
still not quite in step, but I think we are trying to take
steps to get there. We would want to share in anything
that is to happen generally in the Town. We have no
quarrel with the step-rate increases . The basic amounts
seem to be inadequate to do the job.
The Chairman asked if the Commissioners would say
it is fair to say every position has a maximum beyond
which it cannot go.
"That is a very fair statement. This has to be
anywhere."
The Chairman said there is a limit for what a job
calls for.
Mr. Cataldo asked if the Commissioners had any
problem in the area of getting the type of men they want.
"No, I don ' t think there has been."
Mr. Brown asked about the Commissioners ' thoughts in
regard to hours.
"I am sure that some time in the future there is going
to be pressure put on for a forty-eight hour week. I don't
know how long it will take that to happen. My own personal
feeling is the 50.4 hour week will hold for a fair spell.
I would like to see it hold for three, four or five years. "
The Chairman said on a 50.4 hour week a fellow puts
in good stretches of time altogether so he does have good
days off that can be utilized for other things he can do.
"Forty-eight hours would be more difficult to fit into
the schedule ."
Mr. Fitzgerald - "The 50.4 hour work week was at the
request of the personnel and they preferred it over the 40.8. "
Belcastro - "The 40.8 would take too many men to replace. "
Mr. Fitzgerald - "Yes, but the cost to the Town would have
been much greater. "
Mr. Sheldon asked if the Commissioners saw any problems
this year that would be any different than other years,
salarywise.
Bailey - "There is one problem this year . We are
going to make every effort to achieve parity with the
Police Department . This is a special circumstance. "
Mr. Brown asked about additional men.
Bailey - "We would like ten new men. Looking ahead
during the next ten years, increase in population. The
number of calls we are having per day and the coverage and
coalmen is on the ragged edge."
Mr. Sheldon asked how many men are on limited duty.
Belcastro - "Five, not including Gourdeau.
Mr. Sheldon asked if these men are being used on desk
duty on a basis different from the shift basis so they will
man the watchroom.
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Bailey - "We looked into this in some detail. It
turned out that the heart cases were the only ones that
could not be expected to get out and go, go, go. There
were only three of them at that time and it did not make
sense to try and work out a special schedule . The two
back cases are coming back well and will be back driving .
The other back case is coming back. Until we get enough
more individuals on completely limited duty, it did not
work out.
Mr. Sheldon said these men were, in fact, performing
a regular function in a regular shift.
The Chairman asked how many men were on the waiting
list.
Fitzgerald - "Regardless of the qualifications?"
Mr. Cataldo said last budget time they had sixteen.
Fitzgerald - "I would say probably there are between
eight and ten applications down there now. Some have
been withdrawn, others are not interested.
The Chairman asked how many of the eight would be
acceptable
Fitzgerald - " Icould not tell at this time . "
Bailey - "It was getuing thin."
The Chairman asked about the investment on a new man.
Bailey - "The Total cost of a new man to the department .
Almost all of our budget is personnel. If you had 10% on
the If you add 10% on the base salary, then a little less
after that . "
The Chairman said for ten men it would be roughly $50,000.
Bailey - "Something on that order, possibly a little more,
say $55,000. The argument made at Town Meeting troubled me,
pointing out thatthe policemen were rn_quired to be in front
of the public at all times and the demands on him are greater
than the firemen. He is required to be in front of the
public for his eight hour shift, which is true. You have to
take the other 10% of the tctal fireman' s working time which
compensates for the time he is watching the T.V. To be a
good fireman, you have to go all the way. I don't like
this salary distinction made.
Mr. Cataldo said it was not on the basis of the Board
deciding to make the break. This Board overextended
itself to be fair in giving the Fire Commissioners a
chance to justify to it, giving the Fire Department the
same pay, plus the fact the shorter hours entered into
it at the same time. He said the thinking presented
to the Board at budget time that, other than the fact
the police were going to get more money, the Fire De-
partment was in good shape moneywise, plus the fact
they had sixteen men on the waiting list and they would
hire thirteen. There was no problem in getting men
Other than the police raise, everything was fine. He
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said the Board did notweigh the two jobs as to which was
worth more money. This was not the Board' s approach.
The firemen picked the shorter hours over more money.
He said the Fire Commissioners could not change their
complete position. As of last year, the financial posi-
tion was fine other than the police were going to get a
raise. He said it is on the record the Commissioners have
no problem getting men, and the Selectmen could not change
their position because they made their decision on what the
Commissioners told them
Mr. Fitzgerald - "We received a letter that any
salary situation would be taken care of by the Board of
Selectmen. We filed a budget with this in mind. We
met with the men of the department . They requested
50.4 hour week which we put in. There was no consideration
of salaries until we arrived here ."
Mr. Cataldo explained the Board did nothing until the
Commissioners came in and gave them an opportunity to
justify why the Selectmen should ask more money or why
the Fire Department should be granted $6100. The question
was, if the Police Department did not get a raise, was the
Fire Department ib good shape, and the answer was Yes
The Chairman said she idea of being equal to another
department, this does not necessarily make it right . The
Board has two problems which it attempted to solve. This
is another year and the Fire Commissioners' problem may have
changed somewhat. The Police problems may have changed too,
but the Board will take them individually. If there is a
general raise, it would be general for all departments.
Mr. Cataldo said last year the Board was lead to believe
$5800 was a just wage for the Fire Department unless the
Police Department got a raise. There was no problem on
the wage scale unless the police received a raise. There
Care three approaches: One, more men; two, shorter hours,
three, more money.
Mr. Fitzgerald - "We came back after we found about
the differential in pay. We argued very strongly for
equal pay"
Mr. Cataldo said that was correct, but the only time
they came back was tradition.
Mr. Fitzgerald - "The Police and Fire have to work
very closely in their work. We guaranteed the men we
would try and equalize pay at the next budget . I think
equal pay has to be considered regardless of whether it
is a raise. If it goes another year of unequal pay, we
will not be able to cope with the men by bargaining.
They feel they should have equal pay. "
Mr. Cataldo said the Commissioners would have to
justify giving them a raise.
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Fitzgerald - "Give me a reason why they are not
equal."
Mr. Cataldo stated the Board did not say this in
the beginning. The Selectmen did not say the police
were worth more. They were trying to solve a problem
it had that the Fire Department did not have.
Mr. Brown pointed out this was not the time or place
for this discussion. He said the Fire Commissioners
should come in with arguments why the Selectmen should go
to equal pay. The Board is only asking for thoughts
today. He asked Chief Belcastro how many call men appeared
at a fire.
Belcastro - "During the day I have three that go to
the station, possibly two."
Mr. Brown asked what the budget for call men would
be in a twelve-month period.
Belcastro - "That I don't know."
Mr. Brown asked if the Commissioners requested and
got ten new men would they consider dropping call firemen.
Mr. Bailey - "If we get the ten new men, yes."
Mr. Cataldo said this should be brought up at budget
time.
The Chairman said the Commissioners are thinking of
a 5% raise but more important parity with the Police
Department .
Mr. Fitzgerald - "They are requesting equal pay. "
The Chairman said that whenever any department comes
before the Board, it should have the arguments so it
gives the Board something to use in weighiig up an answer
and arriving at a decision.
The Commissioners retired at 10:10 A.M.
Mr. Donald K. Irwin, Building Inspector, met with
the Board and discussed his thoughts as follows:
"I believe you received my letter a year ago. I
think you have three problems. The original Evans '
report was fine and something the Town should have done
years ago. I believe there were inequalities when it
was first established. The biggest problem is that
there is no place to go once you hit the ceiling. There
must be 80% of the Town employees who have hit the ceil-
ing or will hit it. There is no reward fur staying on,
nothing to look forward to . In most industries and in our
School Department, they have a wheel type basis. As a
reward for service for faithfulness and knowledge of the
job should be provided for.
The Chairman asked if he believed that every position
has a ceiling beyond which it should not go; every job is
worth so much money and no more.
Mr. Irwin - "Yes, I think there is. I think why I
bring out here the small percentage I recommend is the
clerk who works for me and John Carroll. Using a 2% every
two years as a more or less regular basis providing the
individual involved is on the ball, they would get the 2%.
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In John Carroll' s case, if he stayed twenty years, there
is about $1900 at the end of twenty years . There is no
argument that John is worth this. He is worth more. The
case of the clerk, if she stays twenty years, it would be
less than $1,000. We would end up with $4,309. There
may be years where this 2%, the Town could not afford it.
I think it wculd give the Board something to work with.
Now the squeaky wheel gets the attention. The Police
come in with a problem, they have a spokesman and get an
increase. Then the other departments are unhappy. "
The Chairman asked if Mr. Irwin had checked with other
towns to see how this town compares salarywiew.
Irwin - "In some instances. In my particular job, I
have checked it. It is more or less comparable. A t own
of this size with one full-time inspector, part-time plumb-
ing and part-time wiring inspectors should not be operating
today. This is the same personnel as ten years ago, LTen
years ago, there was not Itek, Raytheon, Burrough$vand
spools. They all require inspections and some of these
run into fifty. They require more time to start with than
a simple house plan, I can 1°4 at a house plan in ten
minutes. You can 't do this with the other type of building
we are getting. There is also an increase in zoning. When
I first took the job, no one made any mention of zoning. I
did not spend 10% of my time on zoning ten years ago. We
have Historic Districts Commission, Board of Appeals, Sign
By-Law. "
Mr. Burnell asked how much time was spent on enforcing
zoning.
Mr. Irwin - "A good 30%, answering complaints, calls
questions investigating, writing letters. Zoning is a
technical subject in itself. You are not a legal expert.
For the nonconforming or what, you have to prove your case.
If strict enforcement of everyone of these laws with which
the Building Department is connected, was expected, a man
could spend full time on zoning, sign, Board of Appeals,
Historic Districts . The building portion is in itself a
full-time job.
Mr. Burnell asked if he would expect an assistant
to be specialized in zoning.
Mr. Irwin - "I think if there was an assistant, he
should be familiar with the Boning or someone who could
grasp zoning, and be a diplomat . Zoning is a legal
problem and the Town can become involved in all kinds of
legal problems. It is very time consuming. Now it is a case of
what is making the most noise. The complex buildings slould
get closer inspection. Even if you just walk through the
job it has its good effect. I feel these complex jobs should
be hit once a day."
Mr. Irwin retired at 10:25 A.M.
The Board of Assessors met with the Selectmen and
presented their thoughts as follows:
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Grush - "We want ourirls to be
g paid in line with
other similar employees in Town. If there is an overall
change, we would want the girls to be considered the same
way. As far as the level of pay within the department
is concerned, you have our request for one change in
classification."
The Chairman said this is to solve a particular problem.
Mr. Cataldo said this the Board would take up at
budget time.
Mr. Grush - "It does establish a responsibility level
through the department . This is basically it. if some-
thing should happen to Neil, who is going to be in charge
of the office? If he is out in the field, who will be in
charge of the office? From my own experience, it would be
very difficult to replace a man like Neil with the pay he
is getting."
Mr. Cataldo asked if he had any thinking on a general
salary attitude for the department. All of them are at
the maximum level.
Mr. Grush - "Yes, except for the one to be changed.
There, she will be going at the minimum."
Mr. Cataldo asked if the Assessors would be happy with
whatever the Board does for other departments .
Mr. Grush-"I dont think we have anything specific on
that."
The Chairman asked if the Assessors subscribed to the
theory that every position has a ceiling beyond which it
should not go .
Mr. Grush - "I would say, No."
Mr. McCurdy - "We are all in the position where there
is a top. There must be a way of moving the individual up."
The Assessors retired at 9:55 A.M.
Mr. R. L. McQuillan, Chairman of the Board of Health, met
with the Board, and presented his thoughts as follows:
"We are recommending an increase for Jim Finneran
and a change in Classification in S-3 to #-5, to rate 4,
$3900. The Board reviewed the work and believe the skills
required are more aptly described in S-5.
The Chairman asked if he believed every position has a
ceiling beyond which it should not go.
Mr. McQuillan - "Yes, I do."
The Chairman asked if he subscribed to the theory that
there is a ceiling.
Mr. McQuillan - "Definitely."
Mr. McQuillan retired at 11: 15 P.M.
Mrs. Ethel U. Rich, Collector of Taxes, met with the
Board and presented her thoughts as follows:
"I put in for the two senior girls just that they
have an increase this year. I feel the status of living
is going up and if we get the sales tax, we will have more
debts and that is the reason I put theirs up. My Junior
Clerk, would automatically go up."
Mr. Brown asked if the others were at the maximum.
Mrs. Rich - "For the straight senior clerks - I did
not want them to go up to the maximumlbut felt they needed
a raise."
Mr. Brawn asked if she would take the stand that every
so often she would have to ccnsider a cost of living.
Mrs. Rich - "It has been two years."
The Chairman asked if Mrs. Rich believed every job has
a ceiling beyond which it should not go, aside from cost of
living.
Mrs . Rich - "The longer ycu are in a job, the more
important you are to it. I don't believe any ceiling should
be set."
The Chairman said every job is worth so much money
regardless of the personnel?
Mrs. Rich - "Well, there should be a ceiling there."
The Chairman asked if she subscribed to this in general.
Mrs. Rich - "Yes."
Mrs. Rich retired at 11:20 A.M.
Mr. Vincent Hayes, Chairman of the Recreation Committee,
met with the Board, and presented his thoughts as follows:
"We have been doing pretty good except in two spots.
The most important spot is our Director, Ben. I do have
a survey under way, but it is not complete. Each one of
us has taken a few towns and tried to get a comparison of
what their Director is doing and what our Director is doing.
We have gone from a four-month program to an eleven-month
program."
Mr. Cataldo said the Board wanted a general thinking
for salaries in general.
Mr. Hayes "It fits our
program pretty well."
Mr. Brown asked if there was any problem on recruiting.
Mr. Hayes "Except for the senior lifesavers and in-
structors. We have to come up.to standard. We have three
instnuetors now. We will have a fourth one to bring these
four people up. In order to hold them, we have to bring
them up to a pay scale equivalent to some on the private
pools and other towns. We figure if we bring them all up
to his level, this will be it for a number of years."
Mr. Brown asked how many permanent employees the de-
partment had other than Mr. Bertini.
Mr. Hayes - "We have twenty or twenty-one."
The Chairman asked if Mr. Bayes subscribed to the
theory that every job has a ceiling beyond which it should
not go.
Mr. Hayes - "I think this is true as long as we have
the right ceiling."
(he Chairman said the point is, there is a ceiling.
Mr. Hayes - "Yes. We employ college kids who give
. us couple years' service. One big problem we are going
to have is with the Director. I talked with Ben and my
committee. He has been on the job only a year and a half.
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He is hitting the maximum within a year and a half. We
agreed to bring him up to the maximum this year and then
come up with a survey.
The Chairman said when the Committee has its survey
completed, it would, of course, be in touch with the Board.
The Recreation Committee retired at 11:50 A.M.
Chief John W. Rycroft and Lieutenant James F. Corr, met
with the Board.
The Chairman asked if they believed that every job
has a ceiling beyond which the salary should at go, not
including a cost of living increase. He said an employer
puts a limit on a job as to what it is worth.
Chief - "At this time. "
Lieutenant Corr presented charts showing population
increases for the period 1954 to 1964; valuation for the
period 1955 to 1963; tax pate for the period 1955 to 1964;
ac,idents for the period 19514. to 1963; investigations for
the period 1955 to 1964; number of police officers for the
period 19514 to 1964; salaries for other types of work and
proposed salaries for the Police Department. The salaries
proposed were $12,500 for Chief, $8,950 for Lieutenant,
$7,950 for Sergeants, and $6,950 for patrolmen.
Lieutenant Corr - "This would cost the Town for the
first year $24,855, an increase of fourteen cents on the
tax dollar. On a full year, $33,000 or twenty cents on the
tax dollar."
Mr. Sheldon stated that no matter what figure is
selected, there is still the difficulty of Civil Service.
He asked if, for argument, the Board picked $6,950, would
it get the men.
Lieutenant Corr - "Personally, I think so. This
would bring the figure into an area where someone can
earn a reasonable and living wage. Assuming the bill went
through whereby we might hire men from out of Town, we must
say to them ' this is what we have to offer you' . We have
to offer them something to bring them to Lexington."
The Chairman asked who was proposing these increases
in other towns.
Lieutenant Corr - "The Police Department."
The Chief asked if the Board would give his department
permission to make this information available to the Chair-
men of the precincts. He stated many people have said
they don't have enough information."
Mr. Sheldon said the Board would like to discuss it
first.
Chief Rycroft and Lieutenant Corr retired at 12:24 P.M.
Mr. Robert Meyer, Chairman of the Planning Board, met
with the Selectmen.
Mr. Meyer - "Our problem is different. We have a
man we like and would like a step raise he is entitled to.
If there is a general across-the board raise, we would like
to get it for him. He should be just below the Superintendent
of Public Works. We would like to keep him for five years
and get him up to a position where he could get a job else-
where and then start someone at a middle grade. We should
keep him at least three years. As far as the secretary
is concerned, she will keep in step. We are exploring, at
the moment, the pros and cons of having a cooperative
student as a part-time as istant.
Mr. Meyer retired at 12:30 P.M. , and the meeting
adjourned.
A true record, Attest:
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.›r‘cutivTX1erA, Select.in
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