HomeMy WebLinkAbout1958-12-08-CEC-min.pdf rEETING OF CAPITAL EXPENDITURES COJThIITTLE WITH SELECTMEN - 12/8/58
A meeting of the Capital Expenditures committee with the Board of
Selectmen was held on Monday, December 8, 1958, at the town office
building. Those present from the C.E.C. were Mrs. Fitzgerald,
Mr. Noyes and Mr. Palmer, with Mrs Tucker as secretary. Those
present from the selectmen were Mr James, Mrs Morey, wtr Maloney,
Mr. Tucker, and Miss Murray as secretary.
Mr. Noyes asked what the policy of the selectmen was on the 1959
tax rate - was a raise unavoidable? Would the trend continue up?
Mr Maloney replied that they could tell better after they had looked
at all the departmental budgets. He then read from the town by-laws
concerning the duties of the C.E C. 7
Mr . Noyes said that he felt that it would be silly of the five man
C.E.C. to set a policy which would lead to a certain tax rate if
such were not approved by the selectmen The town is faced with
many requests, and the tax rate will go up unless some requests
are rejected or pushed into the future. He perso ly did not want //
to approved projects which the selectmen woul later disapprover,— °` !z11
or reject some which the selectmen% would later approve. — -- c ' ,
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Mr James stated that the C E C. did not need to consider the tax
rate, which was not in their province according to the by-laws.
The committee should merely study proposed capital expenditures for
the next five years and recommend on them. The committee should
neither approve nor disapprove any project - merely make a. recommenda-
tion to thi -town. �-
Mr. Noyes said-that the tax rate is a by-product of what the C.
committee does; ±xxt3E it has been customary for the committee to
figure the tax rate which results from their decisions. This leads
to the question of whether there are too many capital expenditures.
How can xm one decide how the money should be spent without consider-
ing the tax rate?
Mr James The committee 's job is to lay out an orderly construction
program for the town based on the town's needs alone.
Yr. Noyes: Who determines that the needs are? The committee has just
met with the school committee - they ask for a new elementary school
and justify it by a few figures on the blackboard.
Mr James : You must satisfy yourselves as to the need, and not take
another 's word for it.
Mrs Morey The intent of the act which set up the Capital Expendi-
tures committee, and which 'as written by Harold Stevens, the town
counsel, was to provide an orderly program of capital expenditures
Mr James The committee should look at Article 2 - and not issue
a report unless satisfied.
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MEETING OF CAPITAL EXPENDITURES COMM. WITH SELECTMEN - 12/8/58
Mrs. Fitzgerald The duty of the committee is to collect the needs
of the town wnich are presented by the various departments, and to „' U
see what effect they will have on the ton This encourages the 1
departments to look ahead five years . The committee arranges the j
data so the town can look ahead and see what 's coming up, and get i _.
an idea of where it 's going - and this is a valuable function The \
committee should be reasonably convinced as to need by people who /
are experts.
-,,-
Mr James The job isnot defined that way /and should not be done
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that way.
Mr Noyes: Thtis year ' s report will probably stick to the same lines
as in previous years,but will be the same size as the Appropriation
committee report and will be bound with it and will go to everyone
in Ubwn, not just town meeting members. One problem has been that
people have just been looking at the current year.
I Mr. James The C.E. committee in the last few years has set itself
, ,' I up as a long range finfincial advisory committee; in order for it to
[ function this way the by-law should be changed. Neither the C E , r
committee or the Appropriation committee alone can serve this func-
tion; however together they could make a joint recommendation.
Mr Noyes The function of this committee is to lay out program of
projects which won't cause a big jump in the tax rate The committee
has discussed laying out a program which ;could achieve a stable tax
rate or a. slightly increased one. Its job is to report all the
projects which are suggested to it by various departments, and to
recommend which ones the town should buy.
Mr. James The committee should not recommend fiscal policy.
Mr. Maloney The policy of the selectmen has been to spend a certain
amount each year on certain long range proj cts, for instance, drainages
and not go overboard even if the town nee4core.
Mrs Morey The C.E. committee probably knows what it is supposed to
do - and will meet with selectmen again before town meeting.
yr Noyes: Take the example of Worthen Road. I think we 're within
our rights to recommend against it within the next five years.
Mr. James: No - you can recommend against it only if you think the
town doesn't need it - but not for monetary reasons.
Mrs. Fitzgerald But the main reason for changing the timing of a
project is money, lack of it.
Mr James I'm talking about the degree of need.
Mr Palmer Taking Mr James ' position that it is not within our
province to not recommend Worthen Road for monetary reasons - we can
take the position that we don't need it, and let the people who
develop the area build it.
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MEETING OF CAPITAL EXPENDITURES comm. WITH SELECTMEN - 12/8/58
Mr. Tucker Take the example of the new fire station - in your report
you stated that you did not recommend it because the need for a new
fire station had not% been demonstrated.
gr. James On Mr Gayer 's sheet the figures on Worthen Road are an
estimate of its cost, not its cost to the town. It will be difficult
to get cost figures iseym3¢t for the part beyongl the playground. The
selectmen do not plan to push Worthen Road any fasterthan it is ex-
pedient for developers to build it. I ha 'eseen plans to carry it
all the way to Marrett Road.
Mr. Maloney The state has said that if Worthen Road is at Route 2
(construction must coincide) at the time of the work on Route 2, then
there can be access to Route 2 - otherwise not. So the road may have
to be pushed ahead to meet this timetable, if people want it.
Mr. Noyes We as a committee cannot recommend projects without seeing
figures down in black and white - projects should be spelled out. To
make an intelligent report in public works we have to have detail, and
have been very happy to see it this year.
Mr James The committee should put down the figures as Gayer gave
them and point out that a certain fraction of Worthen Road will be
built privately, but how much is not now known.
Mrs Fitzgerald Thinks its reasonable to ask for a drain in the
future without knowing just where it will be; the town has been
constructing drains each year at a reasonable rate.
Mr Noyes: Thinks the C.E. committee should act more like the
Appropriation committee and disapprove a few more projects, and
maybe say that we shouldn't spend this money.
Mr Palmer If the C.E. committee made joint recommendations with
the Appropriations committee it would not have to base its reommmenda-
tion on need, but could take money into account.
Mr James Agreed.
Recreation Mr Noyes stated that the committee had talked with
Jean Wanless of the Recreation committee. The Rec. 0omm. has no
planned capital expenditures, and the comm. was going to meet to
see if there were anything they should recommend to the selectmen.
(Their duty is to recommend to selectmen, who then put article in
warrant if they approve) . In the past the C E committee has
carried *20,000 each year for recreation without stating that it
is for any specific project. What is the selectmen's feeling on tnis?
Mr. Maloney Defer until after the selectmen meet with Rec committee.
Mrs Fitzgerald The C E committee has put in this sum each year in
hopes that someone would buy land
a
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MEETING OF CAPITAL EXPENDITURES COMM. WITH SELECTMEN - 12/8/58
Fire Station Mr Noyes asked the opinion of the selectmen on the
proposed new fire station.
Mr Maloney Against it.
Mr Tucker Selectmen are of same opinion as C E committee last year
Noyes What about the site? I have heard, and have had it checked
by Sam Snow, that the site can not be used legally for this purpose;
the site, and the land adjacent to it, could be used for fire station
only with further steps or vote by town
Mr Tucker Thinks this is not so. Can build on plot next to Reservoir.
Mrs Fitzgerald Another exasperating aspect of tne problem is that
although the fire station itself does not cost very much, the extra
personnel will, over the years.
Mr Tucker It is not your jurisdiction to worry about the site -
only the need.
Police. Mr. Noyes asked about capital expenditures in police depart-
ment. Mr. Maloney said the selectmen did not have the police budget yet.
Mr Noyes Here is a problem we pass on fire department cars, but
not on police cars - how come?
Mrs Morey: It' s not a capital expenditure - it ' s an expense, a
replacement.
Mr Noyes Now the Fire Commissioners want to keep the car they have
and also get a new one.
Mr Maloney -We'll relieve you of that problem.
Mrs. Fitagerald asked if there were anything the C.E. committee
should be concerned about in the police department, and ::,rs Maloney
said no. (There was some discussion of the different set up of the
police and fire departments the police dept. has a chief, the fire
dept. does not, but has the Board of Fire Commissioners. There was
some explanation hinted at as to the difference, and the background,
but I didn't get it.)
Public Works Budget In answerO to Mr Noyes ' inquiry Mr Maloney
said that the selectmen did not have the public works budget yett.
Mr James We have tne same thing you have - list of capital expendi-
tures - and have approved it as amended.
Mrs. Morey V:e were trying to even up the amounts to be spent each
year - partly doing your job
We're
Mr James Imafle concerned with the subject of need as far as timing
is concerned - haven't worked it out yet.
Ars Morey For instance, construction on N Hancock St. has been moved
up because of building the new Junior High school
a
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MEETING OF CAPITAL EXPENDITURES COMM. WITH SELECTMEN - 12/8/58
Mr. Noyes Do you think that listing the public works e.:penditures
for each of the five years has made the estimates greater than ±n
the amounts carried in previous C.E. committee reports?
Mr James It is probably true that they are greater than year to
year estimates.
Mrs . Fitzgerald It has been the committee ' s xx experience that
extrapolation of curves gives figures that stand up better than
going around and getting detailed answers. If we take Mr. James
seriously we might as well resign.
Mr James The selectments feeling on drains is that, over the
next ten to fifteen years the town could spend half a million dollars
on drains - the selectmen keep it down to 4$60,000 - 70,000 a year.
You are
Mr Noyes A asking this committee to approve an amount each year on
drains on the theory that we need a great deal of drainage, without
our knowing the specific p-roject. The committee could disagree,
however, on the basis that it might bankrupt the town
Mr. James This is our basic disagreement
P!ir Noyes Our job is to look ahead for the Appropriations committee,
show what projects are ahead, get the amount of money they will cost
and then recommend what should be done.
Mr Maloney; Take the drain in back of the dump - will need 1/4
million dollar drain if the dump is used for a school site Do you
want to spend it all in one year or over a period of three or four
years - how much do you want to do now?
Mr Noyes Supposeci two big projects come up in one year - both are
needed, but if both are done in one year it would make the tax rate
go up and then down. You can decide only on the basis of money then.
Mr James Study the by-law and decide only on need. By-law says
to determine what expenditures "may be required" Since your function
is capital only you don't determine the ability to pay
Mr Noyes Who does determine the ability to pay?
Mr James The town meeting.
Mr. Noyes You find the Appropriations committee not recommending
projects with no other reason than the town can not afford them. So
they are suggesting a fiscal policy to the town.
Mr James That is their responsibility for the current year.
Ur Noyes I think we can interpret the by-law as loosely as does the
Appropriation committee and suggest a fiscal policy for a five year period.
Mrs Fitzgerald If the C E. committee can't have more cooperatmnn than
it has been having within and without the by-laws then we need a committee
for fiscal policy instead of the C.E committee.
n n
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IIiEIJ]TING OF CAPITAL EXPENDITURES COMM. JIM SELECTMEN - 12/8/58
Mr. Maloney The C. E committee serves a useful purpose. Don't
add more to the government until you really need it. This has been
a valuable meeting, and we will beet with you again.
Mr Fitzgerald I gather that you think that the table in which
we figure out the tax rate} is useful.
Didn't get the answer to this,unfortunately.
Meeting adjourned at approximately 9.40 a.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Labelle B Tucker, secretary