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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1952-11-21174 Mr. Lucas re Pleasant Associates BOARD OF HEALTH MEETING November 21, 1952. A.. regular meeting of the Board of Health was held in the Selectmen's Room,, Town Office Building, on Friday, November 21, 1952, at a:00 P. M. Chair- man Mctlluillan and Mr. Russell were present. Mr. Jackson, Health Sanitarian, and the Agent were also present. Doctbr Cosgrove arrived at 3:15 P. M. Mr. Lucas, an engineer from the firm of Whitman & Howard, met with the Board in regard to the Pleasant Associates, Inc. development. The following discussion was carried on, although it was nct taken down verbatim. Lucas: We made percolation tests and found better ab- sdrpti.Qn there than most any place I have been« The test pits were down two or three feet. The tests were made in October and according to the State, they got ground water which we didn't. Most of the land is high enough so that there is no question of drainage. Chairman: Why would the State give such a definite report and turn it down? Lucas; They found the ground water. They have holes all over the place. They made a soil analysis and we did not do that. Chairman; Did you take into consideratioh the lay of the land? Lucas: The land was high enough so that there would be some grading and the low spots would be filled to level it off so that it could all be subject to being drained. They have to get up high enough so they can drain the land. That can all be done by levelling off. Chairman; Do they plan to level it off and bring the lots up to grade? Jackson: Yes. Chairman: If we approve this and anything in the future should happen that is wrong, and we have a report from the State, we would be in a bad position. Russell: From what I know of it, the trouble is ground water. I have notbeen over there. Do you 0-4 1 1 175 Lucas: think in the Spring when the water is high you might not get the results you got in October? In the lower sections there might be water stand- ing a foot or two down. You might say that it must be graded with drains according to your engineers. Russell: The State made the test in the Spring when the water was high and Mr. Lucas made his in October when the ground was dry. Lucas; You might make the stipulation that under the conditions that they must have the grading and drainage satisfactory to your Engineering De- partment. Russell: Where is the drainage going? Lucas: There is a brook there and they could put a drain in. Russell: The brook is deep enough down so that it can catch the seepage of the lots? Lucas: I imagine the State just shows ground water stand- ing there and under those conditions made an adverse report. I saw the State report before I made mine. Chairman: As I recall, they presented quite a drainage project. Cosgrove; They said there was a $40,000 drainage system which they were going to incorporate in the whole plan. That would make for better conditions than if they don't. Lucas: The lower land would have to have something for drainage. Chairman: Can we grant it with the provisions that the $40,000 drainage project is installed? Lucas; We.found any place where we put a hole the water leached out quite rapidly. The ground on the hill was hard digging. It was rock and gravel but the water was absorbed into it quite well. Russell: We could limit them to the present development of high land where there is no doubt about the water being high in the Spring and reserve our decision for the low land next Spring. 176 Lucas:: Cosgrove: Lucas: Russell: Lucas: Chairman: Lucas:- Russell: ucas: Russell: Lucas: Chairman: Lucas: Cosgrove: Russell: Lucas: Chairman: Russell: Even now if you go down four feet you might find water. You mould be justified in say- ing that they could not get a permit until they give you an elevation of the drains. We made tests presuming that the drainage would be taken care of. Would you say that the majority of the land would drain adequately for septic tanks and the like? Yes. The high part would without any drains but the low part wouldn't. What about the danger of pollution in the brook? The State says a septic tank should not be nearer than 25 feet to any natural drainage. They intended to drain everything into the brook. Would that bd a good idea? Every septic tank leeching field eventually gets into a brook. The State says 25 feet from your leaching line. Where do we stand if we grant them a permit to go ahead and construct the high ground and say they can't touch the low ground unless the amount of fill on every lot is brought up t� such a grade that they have at least four dr five feet of good subsoil drainage? I think that would be reasonable. Is there enough high land to bring in enough? They might have to bring in soil but that would be a drainage problem. Who is going to check on this and see that it is done? Mike it subject to a written agreement that they would fill in all the low areas. They have to have the approval of the drainage by your Engineering Department before the streets are approved. We can stipulate to our Engineering Department what our standards are. From your memory could you say from this plan, what the low lots are? rori i 177 Lucas: I could not pick out exactly the low lots. Have the developer show you his drainage plans before you grant approval. The Board requested Mr. Lucas to prepare a plan showing what lots have to be filled and to that grade, before the Board grants approval. Lucas: Someone would have to carry the expense of a topo- graphical survey. Whether you want to stand the expense or have the developer is a question. Chairman: We asked him to do it but never heard from him since. He should be willing to pay for such a survey. How expensive would a survey of that type be? Lucas: Chairman: Lucas: It would be $300 or 400 probably. The contractor should pay for the survey. You could ask the contractor to have the survey done and then submit it to you for approval. Russell: I don't want to establish the precedent of having work done for a developer. Lucas: If you would like a letter stating that our report is based upon the fact that proper drainage be put in to keep the water table down - - - Chairman: Why don't you write us such a letter? At 4:00 P. M. Mr. Spiers and his attorney, Mr. Butler, met with the Board. Chairman: We asked Mr. Lucas to come in and at first did not plan to have him here with you, but he is willing to answer any questions and make suggestions. dome time ago we asked to hear from you and heard nothing so did not know what happened. In the meantime we asked, as I remember, that you people pay for having this done. We have had a survey made and the report says that tests show that the land is 0. K. but there are certain reservations. The low land is 0. K. providing there is proper drainage and also proper fill put in those sections. We have asked Mr. Lucas if his firm would make a recommendation as to what should be done to take care of the lower portion. You would not want the higher portion only, approved? Butler: No, we want it approved as submitted to the Planning Board. 178 Russell: Butler: Russell: Butler: Russell: Butler: Russell: Lucas: Butler: Lucas: Butler: Lucas: Butler: Lucas: Russell: Lucas Butler This Board is opposed to approval, at the present time, of all the low lots and that we have not ap- proved and will not unless it is brought up to grade in such a manner as Mr. Lucas will tell you. What would you say about the installation of a disposal field? Where would that be? Here is our engineer's report. (Handed report to Mr. Russell.) Our engineer made tests after the State was there and before your man. He says that with a disposal field he sees no reason why the lots won't be drained. He is the Cn.ty Engineer of Revere and has been doing this work for thirty-five years. I will match my fifty years against his thirty-five. This letter leads me to assume that the tests were made in October and we have had a very, very dry season. It is a very different situation than you would obtain next Spring. He is taking the land as he finds it now. If you gentlemen will say that next Spring the holes he dug will not drain the water, I would like it on the record. What does this gentleman have in mind as a dis- posal field? Is it for each lot? The same as they have done in Concord. Is it one for each lot? No. One common field. Once the town accepts the streets I assume the town will accept it. Where would the common disposal field be? I can't answer. You would have to have one lot for a disposal field. It would have to be one of the low lots. Someone would have to take title to it and take care of it. Mr. Spiers lives in one of the low lots, and he has not had any trouble. rrj Indg 1 1 1 Spiers: The Board knows there has been no trouble. Russell: Spiers: Chairman: Spiers: Lucas: Spiers: Russell: Butler: Russell: Butler: Russell: Butler: Chairman: Butler: Cosgrove: Butler Cosgrove: Butler: Some of the lots which have been built upon have water in the cellars. The gas company ruined the lots. pipe. They dug out the 179 Would you want to consider filling in the lower lots? I think it is usual in any development where people are trying to do the job right. It is taken care of. A good many times the builder has not taken care of it. You are talking about a quick and easy deal. It is impossible to build that type of a development in Lexington today. The cost of the street alone pre- vents anyone from building a house of a cheap nature. I am not willing to approve the low lots until the fill has been put in in sufficient amount to bring it up within the leaching. How many lots are you talking about when you say low lots? All of them. The Planning Board has a contour map. We have had enough trouble with cesspools; and we are not going to stick our necks out. We are trying to do everything for the Town of Lex- ington. We have not asked the Town for anything but co-operation. We have a big project there and realize it. Three of our members live on the land now and twelve more want to come in. The Board has no interest outside of the fact that we do not want to grant anything that will make trouble for the town or for the people. You still have to have your first complaint that a septic tank is backing up. You are wrong. If you hadany complaint, I doubt it. Why should we wait until we do? you won't have it. 180 Cosgrove: That is only your word against mine. You may be an engineer. Butler: No, I am a lawyer. We asked your predecessor to do a simple thing. What did he do? Cosgrove: Spiers: Butler: Chairman: We felt in view of the fact that the Board would not trust us we would get our own engineer. It was a blow so we have gone to legal fields. If we have houses now on the low land and they do not have septic tank problems, why do you think the rest of the land will have problems? I am not an engineer. upon are reports from firtt report was from it down flatly. What The only thing we can go engineering sources. The the State and t hey turned would you do? Butler: I would probably do what you have done. Chairman: This gentleman here gives us a better report on your land than the State did, but it is based upon the fact that we be assured a certain por- tion of low land, have the proper filling and ;proper drainage before we approve it. Lucas: Spiers: Lucas: In the low section where the brook comes in. The high ones of course are all right. Butler: VJe tested the soil to see if it would work satis- factorily. It did. We did not know wha4 the water level would be. Anything we gave would be upon the fact that the water table would be below the leaching field. Our report did not say that. It might be all right as is, depend- ing on the drains, but we don't know. We would say it would work siltisfactorily provided it were built up level. Of the 26 lots it is the 13 on Lowell Street to which you refer. Make your report and make your approval, put in writing what you want done in there, and we will go along with it. Spiers: Let's find out what the gentlemen want first and I will go along if it is right. Mr. Lucas made a more thorough test than the State. 1 1 Russell: Chairman: Butler: Russell: Butler: Spiers: Lucas: Butler: Spiers: Chairman: Lucas: Spiers: Chairman: Spiers: Chairman: Lucas: Spiers: Mr. Lucas made his test in October and the State made it in May. You can have Mr. Lucas or your own firm submit to us what you would do regarding filling in to bring it up to the proper standard. What we will do is what you recommend. You are putting the burden and expense on us. It is up to you, who want to develop the land, to give us the conditions under which you want to develop it. We will study your statements and base our approval or disapproval on what you will say. I could hire six engineers tomorrow. Whether his report will agree with you, I don't know. If Mr. Lucas and our engineer were to discuss this thing, they would be able to interpret it better than we can. Possibly we could come to a satis- factory conclusioh. We would have to have enough of a survey made by someone to show the drainage so we could see if there is enough flag between the level of the ground and the level of the drain. Would you discuss it with Mr. Barnett? If these two gentlemen discuss it, we could then present it to the Board again. Mr. Lucas is here today only to report which he made. I would not be able to give any sufficient information. explain the present approval without You tell us who you want our engineer to talk to. You ought to knowwhat we want. That is right. We don't know what Mr. Lucas wants. Mr. Lucas tells us that this will require a certain survey. You need a certain amount of elevation and levels. You find the level of your drain and bring the level of the ground high enough. It may be cheaper to do it Mr. Lucas' way than Mr. Barnett's way. 181 sa 182 Chairman: If you will submit some plan from your own engineer, we would ask Mr. Lucas to approve or disagree with it. It is up to you to get the survey. Spiers: The expense would be borne by us to get Mr. Barnett and Mr. Lucas together and then bring it back to the Board. We will go along with that. We will get in touch with Mr. Lucas as soon as we talk to our engineer. Messrs. Spiers and Butler retired at 4;25 P. M. Russell; They will pay you and also Mr. Barnett. Mr. Lucas retired at 4:30 P. M. Mrs. George F. Smith, 282 Bedford Street, met with the Board in regard to letter received from the Board ordering her to connect to the sewer. Smith: I want you to realize that there is nothing my husband would not do if he thought he could or should. In this instance we feel we should have our case considered. We have about a thirty-five to forty foot well. It is 565 feet from the house on the southerly slopeof the 4 lawn. Before this question came up we had our cesspool piped into that well and had it so. that it would be good for many years to come. We asked Mr. Burns to come up and see it. That has been very adequate. When our neighbors came in and asked us to sign for the sewer we said we did not want to unless we could help it because we had adequate disposal facilities. We, however, did sign for it and are making payments. Mr. Smith retired some time ago and between us we are earning nothing. Our income is only adequate to take care of us if we are very careful. Five years ago they blasted on Bedford Street, and our house is built on a ledge. It took Mr. Russo two months to get the sewer laid by our house. The house is 150 years old and the blasting took down two complete ceilings, com- pletely demolished the furnace, cracked and separated many of the boards. It would cost us $800 to do the work necessary, but Mr. Smith is not able to do it. We do not have the money. Chairman: Did you ever have an estimate of the cost? Smith: Mr. Burns said if he did not strike ledge and cut through the lawn it would be shout POO. It would be $600 if there is ledge, and then there is the cost for connecting. We can't do it. 1 1 183 I hope you will give the matter consideration because it will mean a definite hardship on us to do this and add any further mortgage to our property. We have adequate sewage disposal facilities. Cosgrove: Your plumbing comes out in the rear and runs away from Bedford Street, doesn't it? Smith: ' If we have this done we will have to have it dug up from the cellar. Chairman: Did they estimate 000 or over? Smith: If they struck no ledge. Chairman: That sewer was built five years ago at a great expense to the Town and we have had a great deal of trouble having people connect to the sewer after it was built. We appreciate your coming in. Why don't you just leave it with us? Russell: We have a law which we have to abide by which says that every dwelling house on a street that contains a sewer must be connected to the sewer within e period of time stated by the Board of Health. That is why you received the letter which you did. Smith: Our mortgage is with the Five Cent Savings Bank. Could the cost be added on to our assessment without increasing our mortgage? Mrs. Smith retired at 4:45 P. M. Doctor Cosgrove suggested consulting with Mr. Burns in regard to Bedford Street sewer connections and the Chairman instructed Mr. Jackson to make an appointment for Mr. Burns to meet with him and discuss the subject. Upon motion of Mr. Russell, seconded by Doctor Cosgrove, it was voted to send a list of the names of all individuals who have not made any reply to the Board's letter of October 22., 1952, in which they were ordered to connect to the Manor Sewer, to Town Counsel and further to send him a copy of said letter. The Chairman stated that he would go over the letters received and answer them all individually. Doctor Cosgrove retired at 4:55 P. M. 184 Upon motion duly made and seconded, it was voted to grant the following licenses: John A. Sellars 430 Concord Ave. Licenses Lawrence Farm 52 Pleasant St. Lex. Home for Aged 2027 Mass. Ave. Charles E. Sanborn 2;7 Mass. Ave. Past. of Milk u n ►n i►: I► 1► Alcohol Letter was received from 11rs. John Harris, Chairman of the Unitarian Church Nursery School, advising that the school desires to increase its enrollment from twenty-five to fifty. The Board had no objection. The Agent informed the Board that the Lexington Visiting Nurse Association has exceeded its appropriation of 01,250 in the amount of 0230. She was instructed to so advise the Association. The Agent was instructed to request Mr. Stevens, Town Counsel, to submit a report to the Board as to what has been done or what is to be done in the cases of William J. Dailey and John Brucchi. The Sanitarian►s report for the period from October 17th to November 20th was noted and placed on file. The meeting adjourned at 5:15 P. M. A true record, Attest: Agent